# \[Constitutional\] Increase resilience to outside attackers by updating DAO parameters to not count 'Abstain' votes in Quorum

**URL:** <https://forum.arbitrum.foundation/t/constitutional-increase-resilience-to-outside-attackers-by-updating-dao-parameters-to-not-count-abstain-votes-in-quorum/28545>\
**Category:** Archived Proposals\
**Tags:** governance\
**Created:** [February 24, 2025, 6:22am UTC](https://forum.arbitrum.foundation/t/constitutional-increase-resilience-to-outside-attackers-by-updating-dao-parameters-to-not-count-abstain-votes-in-quorum/28545 "2025-02-24T06:22:25Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 58

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**Author:** ![Griff](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/forum.arbitrum.foundation/griff/32/964_2.png) [@Griff](https://forum.arbitrum.foundation/u/Griff)\
**Post date:** [March 10, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://forum.arbitrum.foundation/t/constitutional-increase-resilience-to-outside-attackers-by-updating-dao-parameters-to-not-count-abstain-votes-in-quorum/28545/58 "2025-03-10T18:54:27Z")

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> [@cupojoseph](#):
>
> if you want your vote to count towards quorum but don’t want to support you should vote against. That’s better.

I 100% disagree! This was learned very clearly in the Early days of Aragon. Weird dynamics happen if Against counts towards quorum.

If a voter want to vote against, that voter doesn’t want to support the proposal in passing in anyway.

So if a vote against adds to quorum, then voting against CAN support the proposal in passing in that way so it breeds weird strategic voting behavior if a voter is voting against the proposal!

If “Against” adds to quorum, and I want a proposal to fail, I should strategically wait to vote Against because it might fail just due to quorum.

Then, with real time voting… if I am holding back my Against vote, and so are others, then more people are voting “For” than really believe it… so it looks like EVERYONE believes in the proposal… so the people on the fence might actually vote “For”.

This is not good, this was learned in early DAOs… It is not better.

Against can not count as quorum, so Abstain does instead. With a DAO that shows real time vote results, its the right way.

😘

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