Arbitrum Now: a pragmatic approach for the Moment

Think Critically About Secondary Effects

I’ve been getting a lot of DMs and it is true that many of the builders in the Arbitrum ecosystem have conflicts of interest due to the fact that their $ARB was rewarded for building in the ecosystem. At the same time many $ARB were dropped to many non-builders including promoters, marketers, and being a DAO deployed on Arbitrum. All gave value to the ecosystem. Why would one class of recipient, especially one so valuable, be stripped of their governance rights?

:bulb: We need to think deeply about the consequences of removing voting rights from both builders AND those who chose to delegate to builders.

It would be great if the delegation contract allowed a person to remove their self-delegation from counting in a vote and keep the rest of what the community delegated active.

Honestly, I was initially thinking more aligned with those saying that we need better conflict of interest rules. I still am, though I don’t think I agree with the simple solution some are asking for. I think that they may not be either after considering these points.

Don’t Go To the Foundation for Authority Without the DAO Granting It

The foundation is here to support us. They provide services for us and the Arbitrum community. They should not have dictatorial power or be the parent when the DAO has disagreements. They also provide leadership - servant leadership. The kind where they ask what we need.

Anyone with enough $ARB can post a temp check tomorrow to see if the DAO wants to give them the authority to do some arbitrary action. The foundation already has the authority to present a liquidity incentive program tomorrow. Like some of the large delegates who use their power to abstain or vote against, my intuition says they haven’t done this because they don’t want to go against the will of the DAO.

:grey_question: Perhaps we simply ask the DAO, “Would you be ok with trusting the foundation (and the terms they set) to do a 1 time liquidity incentive program to advance the ecosystem before the DAO comes to consensus on terms?”

Not everything in Governance is about coming to a final decision. The majority of it is showing the other side how important something is AND putting the issue forward in a way that gets the DAO to reveal itself.

We can use Snapshot more to see which way the wind is blowing.

Remember the Principles of Crypto - Rules Without Rulers

Anything that we do which isn’t enforced onchain creates a gap between what is enforced by math/cryptography vs what is enforced by authority. We should aim to keep these as close as possible. It is more difficult to make a system that aligns the optimal strategy of the participants.

Please watch this: Andreas Antonopolous - Rules Without Rulers

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Can you share a list of the teams, users, and capital agreements you have seen move elsewhere? Perhaps we can talk to them and receive accurate qualitive feedback to understand what their reasoning for switching chains.

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With all due respect Joe, it this logic that is causing the DAO to remain deadlocked - a gaping void between the reality of building and the thoughts of users and delegates that have never had “boots on the ground”, so to speak. We can’t sit back and go through a feedback session for a framework to shape our every thought. We need action. We need progress.

As in all types of business, deals and agreements are mostly private and certainly aren’t going to be shared in a survey on the Arbitrum forum. Unfortunately, it would be naive to think that teams are going to discuss things that are also highly dynamic and in constant flux. Even if a team did move somewhere for incentives, do you think they would tell you that? Of course not.

Teams go where incentives are. Incentives bring users and TVL. Builders go where the highest upside for growth is. Markets are highly fluid and protocols need to constantly be making new decisions. Signals and sentiment have disproportionate effects on long-term decisions.

Do not be fooled by the current metrics of today - look at the attention that Base currently has, a chain generating more sequencer fees than Arbitrum, despite having a fraction of its TVL… it would take 1-2 real protocols launching on Base to set a narrative that Arbitrum would seriously need to compete with.

Base is just 1 potential competitor out of 10.

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I’ve been boots on the ground for years. Your assumption here is not accurate.

I am not asking for us to wait for the feedback. I’m saying we can do things in parallel. We can both work on the short-term “triage” solution and create a higher quality understanding of the problem.

A huge part of DAO inefficiencies has been from “building the wrong thing”. This is because there generally isn’t a good discovery phase leading into many projects. This is a problem in web 2 startups as well. How many millions have been wasted building solutions to the wrong problem or ones that people won’t use?

As with all business, relationships matter. Many of us have spent time building relationships in the space. I’m sure between 660,000 token holders we can find one or two projects who would be willing to open up. Not necessarily on a forum.

They have before.

Exactly this. I agree completely. This is a complex, not a complicated problem. Therefore, we should minimize long-term decisions and maximize our ability to quickly sense and respond to a changing environment. A framework isn’t a long-term decision. It is a set of guidlines, roles, and responsibilities that allow the DAO to quickly respond in effective ways.

Hard agree here.

:bulb: Taking action in the short-term & building frameworks that allow for quick and effective decision making in the future are not waterfall processes. These can happen at the same time! Parallel Processing ftw!

Example 1 - Liquidity Incentive Working Group

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This is why I am fundamentally bearish on small-scale grant frameworks. When you distribute tokens through tiny $50k grants, you end up funding part-time devs that have relatively humble ambitions and almost 0 downside. These small types of development grants, as per Questbook’s type of framework and others, will produce marginal value in the next 12 months - relative to the impact of incentivising protocol and app use.

People receiving these types of grants have almost no downside, there is no risk or urgency, and they can also go and do the same in any other DAO, with almost 0 commitment to Arbitrum. Anyone building something interesting will not do so through a $50k DAO grant. They will get funding privately and deploy onto the “best” chain. DAO development grants target an entirely different type of builder…

Take a look at these types of small grant programmes on any other chain or large DAO - you end up funding small events, basic tooling apps, analytics, community parties etc. Very rarely do these small grant programmes ever achieve significant growth for an ecosystem. Perhaps you can find a couple anomalies, but the vast majority of things funded through these types of grants will add marginal value - you can see this just through browsing what has been supported in the past.

Ecosystem incentives stimulate growth. Growth encourages development. Development deepens network effects of protocols and incentivises them to stay where liquidity is deepest and users are most active.

Small-scale grant frameworks give the illusion of a fair and transparent and measured approach, at the expense of achieving anything of value on a larger-scale.

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Hi all,

Just adding a note here. There are several comments in this thread that I’ve had to delete. We are enforcing a maximum politeness policy alongside our community guidelines.

All feedback should be polite, kept constructive, and add to the discussion. Thanks!

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Fully agree with coinflips sentiment. Don’t think “we must wait for an incentive framework” is a valid reason to vote no for proposals.

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Respectfully Joe, I think your comment isn’t fair.
It is true that native Arbitrum projects have remained loyal to Arbitrum - so far. But it is also true that there are fewer than 10 native Arbitrum projects that people usually align with Arbitrum One. If either one of these projects decides to move to another chain, that would paint a very ugly picture. I’m not telling you that some projects are looking to move; I don’t have any inside knowledge. But I can see that a few of them are struggling. As you know, none of the core team members will publicly talk about the proposals they are getting from other L2s, and I’m sure they are getting them. Some of the competing L2s have fat treasuries, and they are ready to throw some money around.
I could also ask the question: what new, innovative project has been launched on Arbitrum lately?
But this is not the point I was trying to make.
I still stand by my words: money and users are moving around fast, and at the moment the dominant sentiment is that interesting things onchain are happening on other chains (e.g., Base). You can say that you don’t care much for degens and apes, but those are crypto users, at least for now.
Take a look at GLP LPs. Some funds and whales held LP positions there for more than a year. They burned GLP and moved elsewhere. We need that liquidity; it is the best way to attract users and builders.
During the last six months, more than 10 L2s and alt L1s launched. Others are coming before the year’s end. Most of them are or will be ghost towns. But they are also attracting builders with grants and users with a possible airdrop.
I strongly believe that the DAO should help established teams. They need to fight for existing users and continue to build.
I believe we need incentives for native projects with new products and also to attract things that are missing. I’ll give a few examples off the top of my head: deeper liquidity for LSDs (especially stETH as a market leader); tokenized RWAs (they are one of the leading narratives now and they could be useful collateral); etc.
I probably moved far away from the subject; sorry for that. But I really think some changes are needed, and the current “stale” sentiment has to go away.

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I think there is a misunderstanding because I am saying we should do all the things you are asking to do. We are on the same side.

I ALSO would like to start the process of getting qualitive data to understand if users are leaving and for what reasons. I am not saying we need to wait to get the responses to do something.

I’ve advocated that the DAO does take risks, shouldn’t wait for the framework, and should worry about momentum in multiple threads. This stance has been consistent from the beginning.

Perhaps when someone sees that I am leading a team which is designing a grants framework, they mistakenly think I am the one advocating to wait for the framework. This is more a decision by large delegates who don’t want to yield their outsized voting weight without knowing how the DAO feels… which would be provided in our framework discovery. I think is is safe to fund some things quickly that might not be the best outcomes.

I’ve even spearheaded getting the liquidity incentives working group going even if it is out of the Plurality Labs scope. i volunteered to organize and facilitate the first workshop, found a leader in the group who could push it forward, and offered retro comp through a future retrofunding program to get the conversation moving.

This Liquidity incentive working group has met twice to figure out how to pass something before the framework is ready. You can read about it here: Arbitrum Incentives Program - Working Group - #9 by tnorm

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Let me say this out loud because the main point of this article is keep getting diluted.

I just cannot erase a notion of ARB’s dao space is packed with brokers trying to get a cut under the logic of “we will manage your grants”

I can hardly agree on their wordy, abstract objectives and i fear how much more tokens intermediaries will ask for in the future. If there is a conflict of interest between them and delegates, well i wish best of luck in managing the funds.

Above all, ARB needs strong, concentrated, incentives to established builders in the space, not small scale pocket moneys in search of innovative projects visions, goals, etc.

ARB has drawn good enough projects and community has power to define its visions together. Agree?

Excuse my language but no market analysis is needed to see whether users are leaving ARB because if you are a daily user you should have FELT IT by now.

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Totally supporting coinflip here. We need to keep the momentum going for arbitrum otherwise the chain will fall behind despite having a big advantage (especially in tech) compared to other l2 so far.
This hedge has been depleted over time and one of the reason here is how paralysed the whole eco seems to be cause of “framework”, “right size”, “right idea” and so on.

This is paralysis by analysis basically. We can’t let this happen.

I am seeing too many on arbi, here, whom their profession is to “do governance stuff” in every bug protocol and chain. I see these users as the web3 versions of bureocrats. We don’t need this.

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Hahaha, I couldn’y help but laugh at your comparison of these guys with Web3 version of bureaucrats. Truth is that there is money to be made in Web3 and these people will always be there to exercise their power.

Generally speaking, every DAO needs a pragmatic yet flexible approach. I agree with Coinflip.

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I look forward to the DAO signalling that decisive action is required now, and that it is ready and willing to support and incentivise its native ecosystem.

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Governance blackholes that abstain from voting, great project sir

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It’s a fair argument that with the speed and scale of this industry you can’t risk losing traction. Technology moves in waves can’t risk being left behind.

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This is also true and valid

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Influencers with large holdings and followings like @ChainLinkGod should post in this forum more and speak for themselves. Sadly the twitter clout doesnt follow them from here, I hope that’s not what is stopping large influencers.

More community input is needed. Proposals as of right now come here to die, just like this one. Improvements in outreach to the community can definitely be made.

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Could we see this as a yes/and instead of either/or?

Arbitrum has a big enough treasury to fund both:

  • Short term growth by giving grants to “tried and test” protocols that boost metrics and fees but don’t offer differentiation
  • Long term growth by funding innovation

And both are needed for Arbitrum to succeed in its mission.

Our research (RnDAO has been focused on this area for 2 years) into entrepreneurship programs leads us to conclude that, indeed small grants are often ineffective in funding scalable and impactful ventures.

That being said, small grants do support community building if well designed by providing a fast mechanism for talented individuals and groups to get more engaged. We’ve experienced this ourselves as RnDAO, where a “pilot” grant by Plurality Labs has motivated us to build more relationships here and contribute instead of only continuing the work we were already doing with Optimsim, Near, Celo, etc. Small grants are not about protocol/venture growth but about growing the community and also experiments and small but useful initiatives (e.g. like the equivalent to having an initiative to improve one’s neighborhood that’s small but well-tailored. Many of these can aggregate to large impact and be antifragile).

Now, we already learned from Web2 that

  1. going lean and agile is powerful and that means starting with small experiments before raising a top of funding
  2. giving only cash to ventures means they often fail as, by their very nature (early stage, small teams), they have many blindspots. That’s why incubators and accelerators have become popular, where, in addition to cash, ventures get mentorship. And more recently Venture Studios are taking over as they offer even more support (co-founding type as opposed to just advising) and can thus apply a more systematic process to venture building learning from each iteration.

So, an ideal fund deployment mix could include:

  • medium to large grants to fund growth
  • small grants to fund community development (and I don’t just mean meetups but attracting projects and high-caliber talent) and ecosystem improvements (e.g., cultural initiatives as people don’t choose ecosystems only based on money and infra but also the quality of living and vibez).
  • grants+support to fund and support scalable innovation that creates USPs (e.g. via venture building, or failing that, accelerators/incubators)

There’s a further recommendation I’d add, and that’s the idea of business clusters, as they’ve been shown to create competitive advantages and network effects for cities and nation-states (valuable comparison as businesses can also move from one city to another).

We have a pilot of how this can work through the Co.lab programme (executed by us RnDAO, thanks to funding from Plurality Labs). We start with low-cost, high-mentorship fellowships to deeply understand a problem (fellows are carefully selected for commitment and ambition for scalable innovation). Followed by a venture building programme that has cross-ownership between the ventures to incentivise collaboration (multiple mechanisms complete the ownership layer too) and generate network effects (and also anchoring in the sponsoring ecosystem as it’s way harder for many ventures to coordinate a migration than for a single one to make the decision thanks to some grants somewhere else). All the fellows and ventures are selected within a clear domain (collaboration tech) to ensure collaboration, network effects (compounding insights, access to customers, aligned talent, etc), and also to strategically develop a capability in ArbitrumDAO and Arbitrum based projects for operational excellence (which can help attract project from other verticals too thanks to ease to operate).

Programmes such as the Co.Lab by RnDAO would then be paired with the other types of incentives/funding mechanisms mentioned, so there’s both short term and long term gains.
Then also ensuring this works as a matrix (aligned with strategic objectives) across key needs:

  • growth: fees, TLV, attracting devs, etc.
  • operations (keeping the DAO’s and community’s processes running day in and day out),
  • sustainability (things like culture, well-being programmes, DEI, etc etc that keep you healthy)
  • strategic initiatives (@AlexLumley is advancing something in this regard. the key here is that a lot of Growth is based on foundations that were laid bit by bit, showing no direct impact and so only targeting direct growth metrics leads to shortermism and ultimately being outcompete)

more context on these on the post I made on KPIs proposal by Serious People.

Based on the above, the question then becomes about the mix (i.e. what % for each type? and what’s the total amount/% of the treasury that should be disbursed per cycle).

Hope these ideas makes sense and help the discussion. I’m curious to hear your thoughts :slight_smile:

(For clarity, I believe what I’m suggesting here is entirely compatible with what @coinflip are putting forward at the start of this thread and Plurality Labs are working on defining. I meant the above as a mental model that is useful to think with nouance around this difficult and high stakes topic. And the matrix I suggest could be operationalised at some point in the future, but should not hold the DAO back today).

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I will come back to this post.

Very much reflects some of my own comments expressed in my first post here.

Love the title “Arbitrum Now” - I am here to focus on /r/ethtrader porting infra, LP (DONUT) and our community reward system to Arbitrum. We want to get this done in months so we can focus on building out Arbitrum quests and educate people. While I have interest in 1-3 years - that is not my focus here today, or my communities focus now.

I think a real look at what needs to be done ‘by when’ is a real positive PRAGMATIC approach that could lead to some real tangible gains.

I will come back and look at other responses here (I have to pick up kids at school).

Great to see a lot of people working hard. It is my hope people like yourself @coinflip get some traction with more pragmatic ideas. Even if you ran a feedback poll this week asking for input. Next month there may be a completely different feedback poll result. So some real thinking of how to pragmatically guide is really important.

My first post - has similar echos to yours coinflip.

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100% in agreement. We tend to ignore the “decentralized” in DAO :slight_smile:

Proposals should be put forth on forums and approved/rejected. That’s the framework. There’s decentralized decision making. That’s all we need. For now!

Speed is really of the essence. This is an amazing community. Arb is home. I know I’m not the only one who feels that way and wants to make it a huge success!

:rocket:

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